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General Category => Anything Else => Other Games => Topic started by: Smoke39 on June 02, 2016, 06:42:28 AM

Title: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Smoke39 on June 02, 2016, 06:42:28 AM
This is a month old already, but I only came across it recently:

http://techraptor.net/content/duke-nukem-dust-up-gearbox-vs-gobeille

Basically, Gearbox contends that a contract TerminX has with 3DRealms is invalid, because they claim 3DR no longer has the rights to Duke3D.  But rather than taking it up with 3DR, Gearbox is threatening TerminX, probably to avoid a legal battle with 3DR since they think TerminX will comply to avoid a lawsuit.  TerminX is calling their bluff, though, and is expecting to go to court.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Jay Doomed on June 02, 2016, 10:06:09 AM
Yeah I was following this hopefully Tx wins and all goes well. Man I wish there would be a new Duke that was kind of like the new Doom! Did you know that Eduke team released closed info about Gearboxes new Duke game? Its not really a new Duke but an "enhanced" version of Duke 3D featuring a new episode. Sounds kind of cool but they should be working with eduke not going against them :/
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Rok on June 02, 2016, 01:21:27 PM
I'm still in shock that 3DR lost all the rights to anything Duke Nukem. Made me upset.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Duke64 on June 02, 2016, 05:03:18 PM
This is a month old already, but I only came across it recently:

http://techraptor.net/content/duke-nukem-dust-up-gearbox-vs-gobeille

Basically, Gearbox contends that a contract TerminX has with 3DRealms is invalid, because they claim 3DR no longer has the rights to Duke3D.  But rather than taking it up with 3DR, Gearbox is threatening TerminX, probably to avoid a legal battle with 3DR since they think TerminX will comply to avoid a lawsuit.  TerminX is calling their bluff, though, and is expecting to go to court.
I kind of know some about this one TerminX is my buddy though you may already know some. They already went after 3DR for the Mass Destruction teaser from the new 3D Realms/Interceptor team they have no need to go after them in this one. They had a site called alloutofgum.com and stuff like that to promote there upcoming game, the game eventually released as Bombshell. They thought they had a lead to making it a new rpg top down Duke game. Turns out they did not (as expected imo) and Gearbox sued them and the lawyer outcome is the Duke IP is best in one companies hands. So 3D Realms has nothing to do with Duke anymore only thing left for Gearbox to prove fraud is the contract for the android Hail to the King collection. Which the eduke32 team have the contract to release that... Gearbox thinks the contract isn't correct it was signed before 3DR lost full rights to Duke by Scott Miller. So you would think that it was valid before the change but somehow Gearbox thinks its a false contract. So 3DR has nothing to do with Duke anymore. All though somehow I think if it was false 3dr is going to pay for it at worst. Duke Ip has ways of creating stuff and crap. Well Eduke32 is a bigger fish in Dukes community.

Yeah I was following this hopefully Tx wins and all goes well. Man I wish there would be a new Duke that was kind of like the new Doom! Did you know that Eduke team released closed info about Gearboxes new Duke game? Its not really a new Duke but an "enhanced" version of Duke 3D featuring a new episode. Sounds kind of cool but they should be working with eduke not going against them :/

Gearbox had some lunch with Tx before this started and even showed him some of what they were preparing for there upcoming Duke project most likely set to release sometime this year for the 20th anniversary of Duke 3D. But when they went to get him to sign an NDA he didn't sign must of been something in there that he did not like. Gearbox says well "your contract is false." Once again a crappy ride for the Duke IP. There is more then all I have said though, and i'm sure even more passed what we are allowed to know. Either way though its going to be interesting to see whatever Gearbox is doing with this new Duke 3D release though I heard somethings like dynamic lighting and other new features in the build engine. Yes I would love a new Turok and Duke made sort of like Doom and Shadow Warrior 13 :)

Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Smoke39 on June 02, 2016, 08:05:02 PM
Yeah I was following this hopefully Tx wins and all goes well. Man I wish there would be a new Duke that was kind of like the new Doom! Did you know that Eduke team released closed info about Gearboxes new Duke game? Its not really a new Duke but an "enhanced" version of Duke 3D featuring a new episode. Sounds kind of cool but they should be working with eduke not going against them :/

I saw a screenshot of a forum post where TerminX was talking about bad new one liners and stuff.  I'm worried about the future availability of the original, unadulterated version of Duke3D. :/

As for a Duke Nukem reboot, I'm honestly not too interested in the idea.  I haven't played the new Doom yet, but I wasn't very happy with SW'13.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Rok on June 02, 2016, 08:45:24 PM
Pretty much no one can just get along and make a Duke they all want there own piece of cake untill there is none left. 3D realms also sold the Shadow Warrior ip I belive to Devolver.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Jay Doomed on June 03, 2016, 10:05:28 AM
But its true 3D Realms sold the Shadow Warrior IP to the publisher Devolver Digital. But yeah Devolver is letting Flying Wild Hog develop it. So 3DR doesn't have Duke Nukem or Shadow Warrior anymore they have to start a blank sheet and I guess Bombshell is part of that. Pretty sad to watch history just slip away like that in a blink of an eye.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Rok on June 03, 2016, 02:33:38 PM

Yeah Bombshell is not very cool looking imho.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Smoke39 on June 03, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
Bah!  I'll play the shit out of this if the level design is actually good.

Granted, that's a pretty big "if."
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Duke64 on June 04, 2016, 12:39:09 AM
Bah!  I'll play the shit out of this if the level design is actually good.

Granted, that's a pretty big "if."

Yeah the build version looking forward to that for sure everything takes years. Honestly its like a mod which is going to be hard for the world to take in and buy. But dedicated fps ppl i'm sure there going to get the build version. I wonder if that is even allowed to come out anymore I haven't heard a thing since that image you posted :s
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Nfsfan83 on June 06, 2016, 09:01:21 AM
From this what I understand from article, Gearbox has a problem about rights for Duke Nukem 3D??? And they want stop all works with Eduke32???

I hate this sort of developer -Gearbox, they don't allow people working for free, for making better mods etc. I rembmer some guys want make DN3D rekmake:

Duke Nukem 3D: Reloaded

http://dukenukem.wikia.com/wiki/Duke_Nukem_3D:_Reloaded

but of course Gearbox stopped them :( Fuck Gearbox, they know Reladed can be much better than DNF.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Smoke39 on June 06, 2016, 03:52:11 PM
EDuke32 is safe.  It uses open source code, and includes no copyrighted game data.  Gearbox's problem is with a version of the game that's going to be sold (complete with the copyrighted game data).  3D Realms hired TerminX to produce this version of the game.

The part that's bullshit is that Gearbox is going after TerminX himself (an independent contractor who's caught in the crossfire), instead of going after 3D Realms (the people actually allegedly infringing on their copyright).  Gearbox is bullying TerminX (who did nothing wrong) to try to avoid a lawsuit with 3D Realms.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Jay Doomed on June 07, 2016, 01:03:33 PM
I think the reason there not going after 3D Realms is because this contract was signed before they lost all of the Duke rights. So there not in the wrong there since when they did sign that it was there property. But now 3D Realms has nothing to do with Duke and 3D Realms already got sued and lost all rights to Duke including Duke 3D and everything related to Duke they had a fat bill to pay also. The reason for going after TerminX is because he is the one trying to make profit off Duke Nukem this time 3D Realms won't even see a penny if the HTTK android releases its all on eduke32 team.

3D Realms isn't going to step in this storm and say "the contract is valid or non valid" there done for when it comes to Duke. If they do decide to voice in on it then that's when Gearbox will go after 3DR again. Otherwise there not even a spec in this situation anymore. 3d Realms is totally irrelevant when it comes to Duke now.

So the real question is why isn't 3D Realms defending TerminX against Gearbox when he says the contract is valid? Its probably because once they do they give access to Gearbox and then they will be included in this case and take another fall and probably be shut down completely.

I also wouldn't be to sure that eduke32 is totally safe. Gearbox owns Duke Nukem in full including Duke 3D and they have money and lawyers and ways to get what they want. Plus the new Duke 3D Gearbox is working on is going to make old con and map files not work with it. There will be a new con and map file layout that will cancel out existing mods and only work for new.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Smoke39 on June 07, 2016, 07:11:38 PM
[...]

Looking at the article some more, I think I have a better understanding now:

In 2010, Gearbox buys some subset of the Duke Nukem IP from 3DR.  There seems to be a disagreement over who got what from this:
In 2013, 3DR -- believing they still own the rights to Duke3D -- contracts TerminX for HttK.

In 2014, Gearbox sues 3DR.  They settle out of court.  We don't know the terms of the settlement, but 3DR's letter to TerminX suggests that Gearbox got ALL rights -- new and old -- to Duke Nukem.

So now there are two interpretations of whether 3DR's contract with TerminX has any validity:
So it re-opens the original question of who had which rights before the settlement.  Either way it still sounds like Gearbox is jerking TerminX around.

I also wouldn't be to sure that eduke32 is totally safe. Gearbox owns Duke Nukem in full including Duke 3D and they have money and lawyers and ways to get what they want. Plus the new Duke 3D Gearbox is working on is going to make old con and map files not work with it. There will be a new con and map file layout that will cancel out existing mods and only work for new.

The source code to Duke3Dv1.5 was released under the GPL.  Gearbox can choose not to release future versions under the GPL, but I'm not sure you can just retroactively revoke it from code that's already been released under it.  It doesn't seem like it would make any sense, but I don't think it's ever been tested in court before.

Ken Silverman still seems to own the copyright to the Build engine itself, so at least that part's definitely safe.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Duke64 on June 07, 2016, 07:48:33 PM
From this what I understand from article, Gearbox has a problem about rights for Duke Nukem 3D??? And they want stop all works with Eduke32???

I hate this sort of developer -Gearbox, they don't allow people working for free, for making better mods etc. I remember some guys want make DN3D rekmake:

Duke Nukem 3D: Reloaded

http://dukenukem.wikia.com/wiki/Duke_Nukem_3D:_Reloaded

but of course Gearbox stopped them :( Fuck Gearbox, they know Reladed can be much better than DNF.

Just play the game that it ended up releasing as which is Rise of the Triad 2013 its a decent indie like fps but pretty fun and arcade. Here I am playing Hollywood Holocaust on it.


Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Nfsfan83 on June 08, 2016, 07:58:48 AM
Even this mod looks nice, and can be cool how to DN3D remake can be look.

But one thing. Why gearbox never want or can't, make earlier idea about DNF from 2001 (best one for me)



Best stuff what can be in DUke games, city levels, Vegas, aliens, action, Nevada areas :(

Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Rok on June 08, 2016, 12:16:44 PM
Man now that would be awesome if they released an earlier build of DNF. Randy made a few of the maps in Duke 3d i wish he would show more passion in Duke Nukem. But Gearbox has alot of money from borderlands games. That is one good thing they have money so they can afford to get top of the line talents. But they should team up with eduke32 not bully the little guy there being assholes they should be hiring Terminx not trying to cause bullcrap again.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Jay Doomed on June 08, 2016, 12:38:44 PM
Yeah TerminX deleted the thread that gave a bunch of info on gearboxes upcoming Duke 3D project. Then he also tweeted them saying this after it.

(http://orig02.deviantart.net/d00d/f/2016/139/8/6/segwad_by_wesker500-da340i2.png)

If they don't want to work things out then they are just jerks but legally gearbox has every right to go after that contract and protect the newly gained property. 3d Realms is the one to blame for all of this and they're not even involved in it :/ The Duke Nukem mass destruction game aka Bombshell is what did all this. I also think Scott Miller (the one who signed the contract) and Randy have had issues for years and this is just another battle that Randy wants to win. Hopefully they can work out a deal for a new contract. The fact that 3DR has said nothing at all makes me think things. Anyways, there all making mistakes on all sides and being kind of stupid.

Here is my messages to all parties (hopeful they see someday hehe)
Gearbox: Shut up and let us love and make Duke games and release a damn editor with the new game. Stop bullying people and being assholes.
3D Realms: Give it up Duke is not yours you only made matters worse. 
Eduke32: Swallow some pride and sign an NDA then try to work things out with Gearbox. Do not leak things that they showed/told you.
Duke Nukem: Sorry man your current and past owners have screwed you multiple times.

Even this mod looks nice, and can be cool how to DN3D remake can be look.

But one thing. Why gearbox never want or can't, make earlier idea about DNF from 2001 (best one for me)

They could do this now since they own the entire ip. Have you heard of this though NFS? http://www.moddb.com/mods/duke-nukem-forever
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Nfsfan83 on June 08, 2016, 01:08:59 PM
DoomGuy Yes I played this mod and this is very similar to 2001 ideas, we can only imagine, how amazing this can be look on example Cry Engine 1 ( I love this engine more than Unreal) Far Cry 1 is my second lovely game in jungle climate after Turok 1.



I don't know why but some of old engines have magic :) In new I hate all this :D

http://www.pcgamer.com/six-terrible-graphical-effects-that-need-to-stop/
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Duke64 on June 08, 2016, 10:06:13 PM
Even this mod looks nice, and can be cool how to DN3D remake can be look.

Yes ROTT is one of my most played games on steam it is really pretty fun and has user maps like that one and a mp. Of course that one is like the coolest level to me xD I'm going to tell this guy to make a Turok level for it lol. Going off topic big time :P But yeah if someone would want to play Rott with me I will.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Snake Plissken on September 12, 2016, 04:16:10 AM
This is a month old already, but I only came across it recently:

http://techraptor.net/content/duke-nukem-dust-up-gearbox-vs-gobeille

Basically, Gearbox contends that a contract TerminX has with 3DRealms is invalid, because they claim 3DR no longer has the rights to Duke3D.  But rather than taking it up with 3DR, Gearbox is threatening TerminX, probably to avoid a legal battle with 3DR since they think TerminX will comply to avoid a lawsuit.  TerminX is calling their bluff, though, and is expecting to go to court.

I obtained every copy of eduke32 I could, obtained every important copy aswell as the latest Sven build of eduke32s source code aswell, all the content we amounted to over the years since Duke nukem 3ds releases. I even here some guy talk about i2p'ing or dark net hosting all the content forever more. Will see what happens I guess.
Title: Re: Gearbox Screwing Over EDuke32 Dev
Post by: Snake Plissken on July 29, 2017, 07:10:51 AM
This is a month old already, but I only came across it recently:

http://techraptor.net/content/duke-nukem-dust-up-gearbox-vs-gobeille

Basically, Gearbox contends that a contract TerminX has with 3DRealms is invalid, because they claim 3DR no longer has the rights to Duke3D.  But rather than taking it up with 3DR, Gearbox is threatening TerminX, probably to avoid a legal battle with 3DR since they think TerminX will comply to avoid a lawsuit.  TerminX is calling their bluff, though, and is expecting to go to court.

I'll screw over Gearbox when I export and convert every single asset from duke nukem forever and replicate it in kex... or unreal...
Stick it the man I say...